Just how bad is Peter Pan

i think I saw somewhere on here that the story of of A Wrinkle in Time might come in to play???...What if Pan was IT??? That would make him totally bad wouldn't it? However I do agree that the way these writers think is that no one is totally good or evil...so for me he is both but more bad than good...

i like your thoughts LZ...and can see your point about evil isn't born its made. I ultimately think though that these characters know the difference between right and wrong...and Regina didn't necessarily care for her moniker, but she definitely knew the difference. Regina also was more of a hothead but we saw her pain and suffering too...especially when she killed her father. Also saw her feel a little bad when she left Jeff in WL. She totally did the wrong thing and she seemed remorseful but it didn't stop her - hence i would call her more bad than good...

I think with a lot of these characters they think the end justifies the means and in most cases the end that they want is pretty selfish and therefore they do have evil traits. And I will be the first to agree that the DO isn't all bad but he definitely throws his power around and did so before he had his agenda of finding Bae. The BF even told Bae that he was the only thing keeping that spark of light in the DO. I would also call him more bad than good while in the state of being the DO at least.

Rumple was basically cursed into being the DO...i am curious about what it means that Pan doesn't have his shadow...i don't think he is totally good nor is he above doing 'the wrong' thing to get what he wants on a regular basis...where as Snow & Charming strive to always do 'the right' thing to get their way. Regina hardly ever does...only when Henry is involved it seems. Rumple will occasionally do the right thing to get his ultimate goal, but only if it suits him/his main agenda/or his other agenda of getting Belle to like him.

Pan probably doesn't see himself as evil, but i think he knows that kidnapping children and killing people are bad...so i say his agenda better be pretty darn good to justify all that he is doing wrong.

The writers are all into 'evil isn't born, it's made'. So I'm on the side of Pan is on a self-serving quest - much like the Dark One - and will do what ever is necessary to get it done. Good/evil doesn't so much come into play as much as the obtaining the goal.

Another quote that I found interesting on this good/evil topic - is Regina's fears that villains don't get their happy ending and how often she states that she isn't 'evil' though everyone else sees that she is. So I don't think Pan is psychopath type evil, but will do whatever it is that is necessary to get his objective and that he wouldn't see himself as evil.

my mom is a huge fan of the show, so we discuss it frequently. she's sort of computer illiterate haha, so she hasn't come on this site.

she was telling me how she doesn't like that Pan is perceived to be evil/bad. i thought about it, and maybe Pan isn't that evil at all. Maybe we're just seeing him through the eyes of Hook. in all Peter Pan versions, Hook and Pan are enemies so that could make sense.

Rumple and Pan seem to have their differences as well, but as the Dark One, Rumple made many enemies. Also, as his undoing, I don't think he'll necessarily die. He could just stop being the Dark One.

continuing on in the vein of the last post...I think Rumple was there when he was a kid or before he was the DO...its been said this was a land of belief...i could totally see where Rumple totally believes Pan is very powerful and evil and therefore Pan appears to Rump as such even though he is now the DO... and therefore it might not be exactly true that Pan is evil even though he scares the Dark One...

I am starting to kind of think that we are being mislead about PP being bad. Also starting to wonder if his agenda has something to do with getting rid of the Dark One or bringing his shadow back to himself or a combination of both since maybe they are tied together somehow .
We know Henry will be the downfall of the DO and we also saw last season that Rumple had thoughts of killing him. It wouldn’t surprise me if Rumple left the main party because he wanted to get to Henry first. He does good things but he is still the DO right now and with Bae ‘gone’ and Belle in SB there isn’t anyone to help him ‘stay’ good. I found it very curious that PP would want to give something to Rumple that would remind him of something that would bring him to tears. And the way that Lost Boy called him Dark One really makes me think that Pan isn’t as bad as they are trying to make us believe he is.
The other thing I thought about was the fact that Pan had fairy dust. I guess he could have taken it but something tells me he has a good relationship with at least one fairy.
Lastly NL is a land run on belief and the Charming hero’s are true believers that good will prevail…